Nice discussion here.

Since I'm not a naturalist, I'm sort of on Monk/Wittgenstein's side, but I find some of the dichotomies to be a little bit tendentious. Monk opposes "non-theoretical understanding" to the kind of understanding proper to science, and argues that naturalizing programs in philosophy all fail because they don't realize that the domains proper to the two forms of understanding are pairwise disjoint.

Maybe something in the neighborhood of this is true but Monk doesn't mark the distinction in the Sellarsian way one would expect now in terms of the kind of normative presuppositions required by the relevant kind of understanding. Instead, we get this:

One of the crucial differences between the method of science and the non-theoretical understanding that is exemplified in music, art, philosophy and ordinary life, is that science aims at a level of generality* which necessarily eludes these other forms of understanding. This is why the understanding of people can never be a science.

I'm just not sure this is true. It's not at all clear to me that morphologists in biology aim at a greater level of generality than music theorists do.


Nonetheless, there's certainly something to the intuition that there are characteristic differences. But it's so easily Dennettizable that I don't see how the anti-naturalist can make much hay. One could say that given a set of discourse relevant norms held fixed, understanding in general just is the ability to make novel predictions. For Davidson/Dennett, we assume that human systems are largely rational according to belief/desire psychology and then this puts us in a position to make predictions about them. We make different normative assumptions about functional organization of organs, and different ones again about atoms. But once those are in place, understanding is just a matter or being better able to predict.

The interesting question concerns the status of the norms themselves. As far as I can tell, Monk is just mistaken here. That is, Monk's Wittgenstein is much closer to the scientistically minded philosopher here than to the anti-naturalist. If the naturalistically minded philosopher is doing hetero-phenomenology in Dennett's sense (that is, coming up with a causal explanation for why people behave the way they do, as opposed to an explanation that justifies any of those beliefs)** there is simply no category error of the sort Monk supposes.

I really am going to have to immerse myself in the "Cornell style moral realists" some day soon. From second and third hand, it's my understanding that the tradition confronts all of this head-on.

[Notes:

*Didn't Davidson appeal to a dichotomy like this in his early anomalous monism stuff, the whole thing hinging on the impossibility of psycho-physical laws that possess the kind of "strictness" we find in science proper? There's been some really great recent stuff on Davidson I haven't read yet, and I know his main insights and arguments are being reconfigured so as to be shown not to fall with the generalized philosophy of science characteristic of his time.

**Should be citations to Nietzsche (and Marx and Freud) as well as Foucault here!]

Posted in

15 responses to “Monk on scientism and Wittgenstein”

  1. Corey McCall Avatar

    Interesting post. Regarding your first point: couldn’t Monk simply counter by saying that music theory and music performance (as well as composition) are very different activities, and that the former strives for a level of generality that the latter does not?

    Like

  2. Corey McCall Avatar

    Never mind. Having actually read the piece, I see the problem Monk would have with my simplistic solution. Still, it seems we are talking about least three different things here: two kinds of general understanding and a particular kind. Wittgenstein wouldn’t want to identify understanding a sentence with the synthesizing activity of philosophy, would he?

    Like

  3. David Wallace Avatar
    David Wallace

    Monk’s view that Penrose’s radical theory of consciousness is “one of the leading competitors” for a theory of consciousness will be news to most people in cognitive science, neuroscience, AI and philosophy of mind, I suspect.

    Like

  4. Jon Cogburn Avatar

    Yeah, that seems right to me. I think the Brown book does a pretty good job of demolishing overly linguistic and representational models of linguistic understanding.

    Like

  5. Michael Kremer Avatar
    Michael Kremer

    To David Wallace: I don’t think it makes much difference to your point, but Monk’s essay is from 1999, when Penrose’s The Emperor’s New Mind had just come out.

    Like

  6. Michael Kremer Avatar
    Michael Kremer

    Oh, correct that: Penrose’s book came out in 1989, of course; paperback with new preface in 1999 (which might still have brought it to Monk’s attention). The book has 5337 citations in Google scholar of which 1530 are from the years 1989-1999…

    Like

  7. dmf Avatar

    some related thoughts on Brandom, Davidson, Dennett, etc:
    http://enemyindustry.net/blog/?p=5302

    Like

  8. David Wallace Avatar
    David Wallace

    It’s justifiably widely cited: it’s a very wide-ranging book with lots of physics content that’s very interesting independent of one’s views on its central theme. It’s also a natural citation point for anyone seeking a non-straw-man version of a wildly nonfunctionalist theory of consciousness. All that is compatible with it not being taken seriously by more than a very small minority of people in cognitive science, AI and neuroscience (perhaps I shouldn’t have included philosophy of mind).
    There’s a broader point here: popular discussions of these sorts of topics give wildly disproportionate attention to individual iconoclasts (usually writing semipopularly) over the more gradual progress of mainstream science.

    Like

  9. Anne Jacobson Avatar
    Anne Jacobson

    I think one aspect of Wittgenstein’s later view is that our ordinary psychological kinds are not natural kinds. We shouldn’t expect to have a science of beliefs that captures their inner essence or even core characteristics.

    Like

  10. Duncan Richter Avatar
    Duncan Richter

    Perhaps Monk has this kind of argument in mind, from Peter Winch’s The Idea of a Social Science:
    [Wittgenstein] is prone to draw our attention to certain features of our own concepts by comparing them with those of an imaginary society, in which our own familiar ways of thinking are subtly distorted. For instance, he asks us to suppose that such a society sold wood in the following way: They ‘piled the timber in heaps of arbitrary, varying height and then sold it at a price proportionate to the area covered by the piles. And what if they even justified this with the words: “Of course, if you buy more timber, you must pay more”?’ (38: Chapter I, p. 142–151.) The important question for us is: in what circumstances could one say that one had understood this sort of behaviour? As I have indicated, Weber often speaks as if the ultimate test were our ability to formulate statistical laws which would enable us to predict with fair accuracy what people would be likely to do in given circumstances. In line with this is his attempt to define a ‘social role’ in terms of the probability (Chance) of actions of a certain sort being performed in given circumstances. But with Wittgenstein’s example we might well be able to make predictions of great accuracy in this way and still not be able to claim any real understanding of what those people were doing. The difference is precisely analogous to that between being able to formulate statistical laws about the likely occurrences of words in a language and being able to understand what was being said by someone who spoke the language. The latter can never be reduced to the former; a man who understands Chinese is not a man who has a firm grasp of the statistical probabilities for the occurrence of the various words in the Chinese language. Indeed, he could have that without knowing that he was dealing with a language at all; and anyway, the knowledge that he was dealing with a language is not itself something that could be formulated statistically. ‘Understanding’, in situations like this, is grasping the point or meaning of what is being done or said. This is a notion far removed from the world of statistics and causal laws: it is closer to the realm of discourse and to the internal relations that link the parts of a realm of discourse.

    Like

  11. Jon Cogburn Avatar

    Cool. This scans to me, but I think maybe Monk is misleading then.
    The problem is not (as Monk suggests) that these other areas are less subject to statistical and causal laws than scientific ones. But rather that to understand them entirely in terms of statistical and causal laws is not to understand them. Am I correct that Wittgenstein takes this kind of argument to apply not just to scientific explanation, but to metaphysics generally? Metaphysicians try to explain normative phenomena by positing some kind of stuff that grounds the normativity.
    I may be confusing Wittgenstein and Heidegger here (though Lee Braver shows compellingly that there is a lot of overlap).
    I think Dennett (or is it Dummett?) has a discussion somewhere about alien beings who could perfectly predict the evolution of any game of chess but who had no idea of winning. I don’t remember what the upshot was supposed to be though.

    Like

  12. Duncan Richter Avatar
    Duncan Richter

    The problem is not (as Monk suggests) that these other areas are less subject to statistical and causal laws than scientific ones. But rather that to understand them entirely in terms of statistical and causal laws is not to understand them.
    I think that’s right, although it depends what counts as belonging to “these other areas.” Winch thinks that some things cannot be predicted, and Monk may well agree. Here’s more Winch: “Think of the interplay between orthodoxy and heresy in the development of religion; or of the way in which the game of football was revolutionized by the Rugby boy who picked up the ball and ran. It would certainly not have been possible to predict that revolution from knowledge of the preceding state of the game any more than it would have been possible to predict the philosophy of Hume from the philosophies of his predecessors. It may help here to recall Humphrey Lyttleton’s rejoinder to someone who asked him where Jazz was going: ‘If I knew where Jazz was going I’d be there already’.”
    Am I correct that Wittgenstein takes this kind of argument to apply not just to scientific explanation, but to metaphysics generally? Metaphysicians try to explain normative phenomena by positing some kind of stuff that grounds the normativity.
    I’m not sure how genuinely Wittgensteinian Winch’s argument is (it sounds like he’s arguing for a controversial thesis, which is the kind of thing Wittgenstein says he doesn’t do), and the line of argument you’ve sketched here sounds like an idea towards which Wittgenstein might have been sympathetic, but no close parallels in his writing spring to mind. (I think he would have been sympathetic towards Winch’s view, too, but perhaps he wouldn’t count it as philosophy.)
    I like the story of the aliens. I’ll have to try to look that up.

    Like

  13. Jon Cogburn Avatar

    Great stuff. I’m pretty sure I’m on Winch’s side.
    Also let me direct anyone reading this to the interesting related post on your blog – http://languagegoesonholiday.blogspot.com/2014/09/understanding-human-behavior.html#comment-form .

    Like

  14. Anne Jacobson Avatar
    Anne Jacobson

    JC says, “The problem is not (as Monk suggests) that these other areas are less subject to statistical and causal laws than scientific ones. But rather that to understand them entirely in terms of statistical and causal laws is not to understand them. ”
    But Wittgenstein quite repeatedly says that lots of other areas are not subject to statistical and causal laws.

    Like

  15. Duncan Richter Avatar
    Duncan Richter

    Thanks!

    Like

Leave a comment